Steering for 95 YJ w/ SOA

[ovrszd]

All I did was bleed my lines from all 4 corners (furthest from master to closest, i.e. pass rear, driver rear, pass front, driver front).

To bleed the lines, I used an empty water bottle with 1/2" of brake fluid in the bottom and a couple feet of aquarium air line. Drill a hole in the top of the bottle lid and feed the tubing in so it's under the level of the fluid at the bottom of the bottle. Put the other end over the bleeder valve on the caliper. Take a pair of lineman's pliers and crimp the tubing and then loosen the bleeder screw. Tell your "helper" (my 8-yr old) to press the brake all the way to the floor, as you open the jaws on the pliers. Brake fluid (and probably air) will squirt out into the line. While the helper holds the pedal on the floor, crimp the line again and tell them to let up. That will suck fluid from the master into the line instead of from the bottle. Just keep doing that until you get a full tube of clean fluid, with no bubbles. Repeat at each corner. Make sure not to let the reservoir under the hood get low or you'll suck air in that way..... as the water bottle fills up, empty it occasionally (not back into the reservoir - fresh fluid is CHEAP).

Actually you should start bleeding closest to the MC and work your way out. By starting furthest from the MC, with air close to the MC, you just pushed that air out into the system where it will creep into each line junction and contaminate the entire system. By starting closest to the MC you rid the system of that air first.

As for the bottle trick, not sure I understand that at all. Does you no good to have an air filled tube sticking into a bottle of fluid. If any vacuum is created at the bleeder it'll suck the air in the line first before it gets any fluid out of the bottle. You also have the risk of sucking air past the tube and the bleeder fitting. By clamping with pliers you risk air getting in when the brake pedal is released. You should never release the pedal with a bleeder open.

Use a wrench on the bleeder. Attach a tube to the bleeder and dump into any container so you don't make a big mess. With the bleeder closed have your pumper pump up the brakes, I use three strokes, and hold down on the pedal. Loosen the bleeder slightly letting fluid/air escape until it quits flowing, tighten the bleeder. Tell the pumper to repeat the process. I look for air in the fluid but I also look at the condition of the fluid. I bleed until I get clean fluid. Old fluid gets contaminated with air and is less effective. Brake experts say you should replace your brake fluid annually or when it gets discolored.

[mujeeper]

ovrszd - I'll try that method this week. Sounds a lot simpler than bench bleeding, but I guess most times you need to bleed a MC it's probably cause you just bought one, not let the system run out of fluid (oops). I did get the brakes bled just fine and I use the same method you described (3 pumps, hold, loosen bleeded, let air/fluid out, tighten bleeder, repeat until air is out).

As far as the rear brakes, they're discs. I think my issue is BMC, but I'll find that out this weekend....hopefully

[ovrszd]

Yep, I'd say the problem is the MC also. You are right, MC bleeding is usually only needed when you buy a new one. Since you've changed out your wheel brake systems I'm guessing the MC doesn't have the capacity to fully engage the brakes with the first push. Takes a couple strokes to push that much fluid into the system. If so you are going to have to change out the MC. If you can find one with more capacity that will bolt up to your booster you won't need to change it. I had a donor so I didn't look for a fit. I just changed both. My current booster and MC are a lot bigger than the factory ones.

[mujeeper]

Well, I tried the pumping brake with cap off method, no dice. May try to bench bleed it tomorrow. Wouldn't mind a new brake set up. What I have is 16 years old, so it's days are probably numbered anyway. Anyone know what upgraded braking system is compatible with a 95 YJ? Not sure how easy it is to find compatible braking components.

[ovrszd]

I can't help you with a bolt-in conversion. If you look at my picture you see that the FSJ booster has an angled spacer block. I removed that and bolted the booster directly to the firewall using the same bolt pattern as the MJ booster. I had to cut the pedal rod and change ends to retain my brake light switch. I also had to BFH the shock tower a little to get the larger booster installed.

You might try searching the jeepforum or pirate websites. I'm sure someone has done a conversion on a YJ and a writeup. As with almost anything, there is a direct bolt-in that will serve you well if you can just find it. I converted my old YJ to larger brakes and added discs to the rear. I ran the factory MC and booster for 15 years. I just got used to a low pedal on the first stroke. Brakes worked great, just had low pedal. I decided with Mary Jane I'd address that problem.

Actually just had a thought, Glen Richardson might have some good info. His YJ certainly had modified brakes. He might have changed the MC and booster.

If you find a bolt-in fix post it so the next guy can use your experiences.

[mujeeper]

Ya. I'll be doing a write up on my mod here shortly. May start a new thread for that.

As far as the brakes, it was both. Had a little air, but still not big enough to push the calipers. I guess I shouldn't be surprised considering I have rear disc brakes from a ford explorer & front disc brakes from a grand cherokee. Should probably upgrade the rest to a "SUV" rated application. I'll do more homework & add it to the thread when I get it.

On a good note......dun da da daaaaaaaaaa!! She's back! And just in time for the snow. I got it all taken care of last night. To bleed the mc, I just disconnected the lines from the mc, opened the lid, & had someone press the brake slightly while I plugged the holes where the lines were, with my fingers, allowing fluis & air to escape, but no air to get in. I rerouted the brake lines to behind the shock mounts and put the calipers on the right sides. Bled the brakes again and she was good to go. I'll probably rebleed everything in a week or so to make sure I got it all. Given that everything is getting messed with, I think going over it one more time may help. Worth a shot now that all the bolts are new or have been loosened.

As far as the proper procedure on which tire to bleed first, I've heard start farthest first and work in closer, but noticed that I still had air the first time I did it. I think when there's THAT much air in the system (given what I did), you gotta rebleed as you do it as air may move around in the lines...who knows, whatever, I'm done.....for now.

Thanks to all who have helped me with my questions! I have a much beeter built ride with great steering and bigger brakes thanks to you all!

***Update....Did a little reading. Looks like a MC from a '78 Grand Marquis, with 4whl disc and hydroboost is the answer. Gonna read into this and may try it. I'll let you know how that turns out. Found several forums that discuss this swap. Amazing that there used to be a time we didn't have internet.....***

[Rescue Diver]

I always use a cheap vaccum pump to bleed my brakes. Also put some heavy grease around the threads of the bleeders so it doesn't suck air through the threads while using the vaccum pump.

[spunebil]

I just leave bleeder valves open and keep filling master cylinder (as it needs it) and then close bleeder valves as they show just fluid and no air coming out ! same as I do for hyd. clutch !

course pans (4) to catch the fluid is a good idea if ya want a clean floor in garage ! LOL

[rjh]

this looks like my setup; i punch the tubing through a small hole I drill in the lid to the bottle though, in case it tips over - less spillage that way.



the last few times i've done mine, I've just pinched the hose with some lineman's pliers rather than messing with the bleeder valve. the tubing is soft enough to get an air-tight seal that way, and it's a lot faster. by starting with fluid in the bottle and the airline tubing all the way at the bottom, if it DOES suck backwards once, at least it's sucking fluid back in instead of air. I've yet to see that though.

[spunebil]

cool setup, but be careful with them lineman piers ! as a slight slip and oops ! you will cut hose ! ;-)

and I am confused on how ya dont need to mess with bleeder valve ? does it open and close on its own ?

[rjh]

Take a drinking straw. Blow through it. Now pinch the end shut with your fingers really hard. Blow through it. Same concept.

PINCH hose. OPEN bleeder valve. Have helper push brakes to pressurize line. RELEASE pliers and fluid squirts through hose.

PINCH hose and have helper release brakes; it sucks fluid into the line from the MC.

lather, rinse, repeat.

[spunebil]

so you do have to mess with the bleeder valve

when ya said ya didnt need to, it made me wonder ! LOL

[ovrszd]

Rescue Diver explained the best way and clearly described the hazards to avoid such as sucking air around the bleeders.

I still don't get why it'd be faster to grip and let loose of the hose with pliers than to just turn the wrench as shown in rjh's picture?? I also don't understand the need to have the hose in a bottle of fluid when there's air in the hose?? To each his own. :)

[rjh]

I don't have a set of flare wrenches, so it's easier for me to use the pliers than fumble around with my crescent (adjustable) wrench. to each his own. :)

[ovrszd]

I just leave bleeder valves open and keep filling master cylinder (as it needs it) and then close bleeder valves as they show just fluid and no air coming out ! same as I do for hyd. clutch !

course pans (4) to catch the fluid is a good idea if ya want a clean floor in garage ! LOL

Spune, the problem with letting vacuumn do the work is that the flow is too slow. A hump in your brake line will retain air as there's nothing forcing the air to move. The fluid is seeping slowly enough to not produce that force.