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  • D 30 Big Brakes

    I have a 99 TJ D30 front running stock brakes with 35" tires. Lets just say the brakes are not cutting it!

    Has anyone done a big brake up grade WJ (Grand Cherokee), Crown Vic, Sport Trac or Mustang?

    I have done some surfing and found pros and cons with this mod would like some of you thoughts.
    Last edited by white 99 tj; 01-26-2015, 04:43 AM.

  • #2
    Lot of WJ swaps like this in the XJ world. Requires more than simply changing the rotors.

    -Mike B-
    '01 XJ Sport
    '11KK Limited

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    • #3
      Mujeeper and I did the WJ brake/Steering upgrade on this 95 YJ a few years ago (right after I moved out here and crashed at his house). I suggest you speak to him (MuJeeper) on his thoughts on this-- He runs 35 MTRs on a HP 30.

      It was a lot more (custom) work and $$$$ then anticipated but it turned out real well.

      Here is the link to the thread on this upgrade http://www.kcjeepclub.org/forum/show...or-95-YJ-w-SOA
      Last edited by RoKn; 01-26-2015, 10:58 AM.

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      • #4
        I have WJ brakes on my 05 LJ. They'll stop with 36's on a dime. Great upgrade if you street it. My jeep's heavy too - armor all the way around. You'll need a spacer for the flange (search for "JKS flange spacer") - they're about $20. You weld that on to position the unit bearing to ensure the correct alignment for u-joints & brake calipers. That's probably the hardest part of the conversion. There were also a couple different calipers used for the WJ brakes; one was recalled so you'll want the other. I have some notes around here somewhere, but google would probably turn that info up for you as well, if you're going with junkyard calipers - need to know what to look for.

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        • #5
          I agree the WJ swap can be expensive and you really need 16" wheels to clear the calipers. Im running 15" wheels.

          I was thinking of keeping my knuckles or swapping in the earlier 84 to 88 XJ knuckles. The Rotor and caliper would be from a Explorer Sport Trac 03 to 05.
          Sport Trac is 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern, 12" rotor same as WJ and the Caliper is also 48mm twin piston.
          Has anyone gone this route?

          I think the WJ swap requires a different lower ball joint ( JK d30 lower) & 1/4" spacer for the unit bearing due to the knuckle being offset.
          Last edited by white 99 tj; 01-26-2015, 08:37 PM.

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          • #6
            If im correct the steering will not need to be touched. Master cyl also will work.
            I will need to fab a caliper mounting bracket. The Vanco brake setup is done this way.

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            • #7
              Vanco Brake Bracket

              http://www.shop.blackmagicbrakes.com...Vanco%2016.jpg
              Last edited by white 99 tj; 01-26-2015, 08:14 PM.

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              • #8
                Earier XJ knuckle and bracket

                http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/...ps006ac6b6.jpg
                Last edited by white 99 tj; 01-26-2015, 08:14 PM.

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                • #9
                  GO Jeep has another way with your current knuckle and fabbed up brackets.

                  http://www.go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoFordBAdiscs1.htm

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                  • #10
                    This goes over several options.

                    http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1107370

                    http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...t/fab066-1.jpg

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by white 99 tj View Post
                      I agree the WJ swap can be expensive and you really need 16" wheels to clear the calipers. Im running 15" wheels.

                      15" wheels will clear the calipers... its real tight, but it clears without any rubbing.

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                      • #12
                        With the WJ knuckle swap, you don't need to fab a caliper bracket, just the 1/4" spacer for the unit bearing. Mine also has crossover steering and high steer; the tie rod is flipped and the drag link goes directly to the passenger knuckle, using flipped a RHD WJ TRE. You're welcome to crawl around under there, measure, whatever.

                        I've got 15" MRW beadlocks. They rubbed slightly on the calipers, but self clearanced. I've had no issues with them and the WJ calipers. You could grind a tiny bit off if you wanted; less than 1/8".

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                        • #13
                          I too have the WJ swap with sport trac rotors. It stops amazingly well. I also put braided lines all the way around which helped tremendously also. I run 35's with 15" steel wheels and never had any rubbing issues. I run the steering heim kit from rufftuffspecialties.com The master cylinder does not have to be changed. But one of the best things of doing the wj knuckle swap is getting rid of that terrible steering that the TJ has on it. Good luck and if you are ever in the Tonganoxie area on the weekend or coming to Frostbite you are welcome to check it out.
                          Some people just need to get over themselves.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Alrighty. I did the WJ swap a few years back after my tie rod broke (thankfully in a parking lot rather than the highway I was just on). I knew zilch about steering & brakes. Well, how to swap out pads was the extent. After 6 months of research & labor & about $1200 worth of parts & little bit of labor (I don’t weld), I got the sweet upgrade done.
                            For 1, if you don’t have disc brakes in the rear, I’d strongly recommend looking into that first/as well. I noticed a more substantial increase in braking when I swapped my D35 w/ drums to a Ford 8.8 with disc’s. I did notice a big upgrade with the WJ caliper upgrade, just not as much. Still a great upgrade, though.

                            Anywho, a few things to note in the upgrade…
                            • I replaced the drag link & tie rod with much larger, heavy duty rods. I had to chop these down a few to get them to fit
                            • I replaced my drop pitman arm to a stock pitman arm
                            • I think my drag link & tie rod ends are for a grand Cherokee in order to fit the thread pitch & diameter
                            • Weld a spacer to the knuckles (I had this done for about $100)
                            • Install ΒΌ” spacers to the caliper bracket to the knuckle
                            o These may be between the caliper to the bracket. I forget. It’ll make sense when you get there.
                            o I bought 1/8” washers from home depot & doubled them up. No drilling. No welding. Just a short drive & few cents
                            • Keep your rotors, buy new WJ rotors, & you’ll need to drill out new lug holes. I had this done when I had my knuckle spacers welded on because it was emphasized to me the importance of having this exact, but if I needed new rotors, I’d probably drill out my own. Doesn’t hurt that I have a drill press now, too 
                            • My 15x8’s do work for the WJ calipers, but they’re a tight fit. I read that some do not, so might want to peak at the inner diameter of your wheels. You can try fitting them on my jeep sometime if you want to swing by or if I see you on the trails sometime.
                            • I got my calipers at a pick n pull type place in KCK. I forget where, but it was near 435 & I70 in the east part of the loop. I called first & they pulled the parts for me. Granted, they kept screwing up & resulted in 3 different trips, but I could not find them online as they may be discontinued. This was a few years back & a lot going on so maybe it’s in my thread Rokn mentioned on page 1.
                            • I think there were 2 types of calipers to choose from. Again, I forget the details so defer to my thread.
                            • I just stepped in the garage & snapped a few pictures of my set up. Note how flat the drag link is. So smooth, I don’t need a steering stabilizer.
                            • I read that a larger brake master cylinder is needed, but after digging into it more, I realized that my jeep happened to be the later part of the 95 model that had a vacuum brake booster. Long story short, I didn’t need any master cylinder upgrades. Since you’re a newer jeep than me, you probably are ok with what you have. If you need an upgrade on your master cylinder, I think it’s a 78 crown vic?.... I may have spoken on this on my thread or another article . Regardless, I went down this road already if you need additional input.
                            • Definitely get the upgraded stainless steel brake lines. I keep a spring attached to them since they’re so long. Keeps them out of the way.
                            • You have to weld in a fitting in the knuckle to accept the new DL/TR ends. I forget the reasoning, though. It should be mentioned in my previous thread.

                            Ok. That’s a mouthful. Good luck with the mod. If you want to swing by & take a look at what I did, let me know. Your location says your next door, so should be a short drive for ya.
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by mujeeper; 02-01-2015, 03:13 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              XJ Big Brake Info

                              http://jeepm62superchargerkit.blogsp...blog-page.html

                              Wheel Bolt Spacing-
                              5x4.5"- XJ, Mustang, Ford '02 SportTrac(ST)
                              5x5.0"- WJ, JK, GC-SRT8

                              Stock OEM Brakes
                              XJ- '84-'89 Cherokee Early Knuckles with large caliper mounting lugs, 5.50" spacing, 11" rotors, single piston calipers
                              '90-'01 Cherokee Late Knuckles with brake pad 'wings', 11" rotors, single piston calipers
                              ZJ-- '93-'98 Grand Cherokee same brakes as XJ, rear discs 11" rotors (adaptable to XJ rear)
                              WJ- '99-'04 Grand Cherokee 12" rotors, dual piston calipers, caliper mounting lugs 5.15" spacing, different lower ball joint than XJ, passenger side knuckle with high mount steering (USA model)
                              '99-mid'02 Teves calipers, mid'02-04 Akebono calipers-better design
                              Jeep GC SRT8- '13-'14 6 piston Brembo front 15" rotor, 4 piston Brembo rear 14" rotor
                              Jeep GC SRT8- '06-'12 4 piston Brembo front 14" rotor, 4 piston Brembo rear 14" rotor

                              Caliper Mounting Tab Spacing-
                              early XJ+SRT8 6piston=5.5" WJ=5.15" Mustang=6.0" JK=5.75" GC SRT8 4piston front=4.25" GC SRT8 rear=3.5"

                              'WJ Swap'- Expensive $$$$
                              -requires WJ calipers and pads (Akebono Calipers BEST vs. Teves Calipers)
                              -requires WJ Knuckles R+L
                              -requires welding JKS Spacers to WJ knuckle (if 2WD- don't need spacers)
                              -WJ rotor (drilled to 5x4.5") + Late XJ hub ---or--- Ford SportTrac(ST) rotor + Early XJ hub (edge ground)
                              -requires WJ lower ball joint instead of the XJ ball joint, AC Delco 45D2292 $64.79
                              -(Top Ball Joint XJ and WJ are the same)
                              -requires fabricated tie bar and tie rod ends (possibly offset TREs)
                              -requires fabricated steering drag link bar
                              -requires fabricated track bar
                              -requires fabricated track bar mount on axle
                              -requires fabricated raised axle sway bar mounts
                              -may require wheel spacers for Teves caliper and TRE clearance on some 15" wheels
                              -Rusty's WJ Steering + WJ Brake Upgrade Kit, everything above included, $1,325.00

                              XJ Hub Bearing-Early (Composite rotor)
                              0.20-0.22" taller, 3.22" (82mm) flange to wheel flange surface, Timken #513084 $66.79
                              XJ Hub Bearing-Late '99.5 (Cast rotor)
                              shorter flange dimension 3.07" (78mm), taller around axle nut, Longer studs, Timken #HA597449 $67.79

                              .................EARLY (Composite Rotor) Bearing.........................LATE '99.5+ (Cast Rotor) Bearing


                              Click the image to open in full size.

                              Brake Pads-
                              Jeep GC SRT8 '13-'14 Brembo 6 piston Pads- 2.5"x6.25" = 15.65sq.in. X2= 31.25 sq.in./wheel
                              ..15" Rotor Brake Swept Area- 14.875" - 12.375" = 53.47sq.in. X2 = 106.94 sq.in.
                              ..14" Rotor Brake Swept Area- 13.875" - 11.375" = 53.82sq.in. X2 = 107.64 sq.in.
                              Jeep GC SRT8 '06-'12 Brembo 4 piston Pads- 2.3"x5.5" = 12.65sq.in. X2= 25.30 sq.in./wheel
                              ..14" Rotor Brake Swept Area- 13.875" - 11.575" = 45.97sq.in. X2 = 91.94 sq.in.
                              Shelby GT500 '07-'12 Brembo 4 piston Pads- no sample yet
                              ..15" Rotor Brake Swept Area- 14.875" -
                              ..14" Rotor Brake Swept Area- 13.875" -
                              Mustang GT 2014 Pads- 2.0"x4.3" with 0.6" gap in middle = 7.5sq.in. X2 = 15.0 sq.in./wheel
                              ..15" Rotor Brake Swept Area- 14.875" - 12.875" = 43.58sq.in. X2 = 87.2 sq.in.
                              ..14" Rotor Brake Swept Area- 13.875" - 11.875" = 40.45sq.in. X2 = 80.9 sq.in.
                              ..13" Rotor Brake Swept Area- 12.875" - 10.875" = 37.30sq.in. X2 = 74.6 sq.in.
                              WJ Pads- 1.73" x 4.25" with 0.13" gap in middle = 7.128 sq.in. X2 = 14.25 sq.in./wheel
                              ..12" Rotor Brake Swept Area- 11.875" - 10.145" = 29.92 sq.in. X2 = 59.84 sq.in.
                              XJ Pads- 1.65" X ?.??"
                              ..11" Rotor Brake Swept Area- 10.875" - 9.225" = 26.05 sq.in. x2 = 52.10 sq.in.

                              Wheels and Brake Upgrades-
                              15" wheels- 12" and WJ, Cobra or GT caliper, ?13.2" rotor with Brembo 4 piston caliper
                              16" wheels- 13.2" Mustang GT rotor and Brembo 4 piston caliper
                              17" wheels- 13.2" Mustang GT rotor and GT caliper, 14" Shelby GT500 rotor and Brembo 4 piston
                              18" wheels- 14" Shelby GT500 rotor and GT caliper, 15" Shelby GT500 rotor and Brembo 4 or 6 piston
                              19" wheels- 15" Shelby GT500 rotor and GT or Brembo caliper

                              Weights-
                              Caliper and Pads-- XJ=??.? lbs, WJ(akebono)=17.2 lbs, Mustang GT 2014=10.8 lbs, GC SRT8 6piston=15.8 lbs, GC SRT8 4piston=14.8 lbs, GC SRT8 4piston(Rear)=6.6lbs, Shelby GT500 4 piston= ?lbs
                              Rotors-- XJ 11"=14.6lbs, WJ 12"=17.4lbs, SportTrac(ST) 12"=18.4lbs, Mustang GT 13.2"=20.8lbs, Mustang GT500 14"(Centric)=24.6lbs, Mustang Shelby GT500 15"=32.6lbs
                              Mustang Shelby 14" rear rotors=16.1lbs

                              Master Cylinders for XJ/TJ-
                              1" bore, Stock XJ, F-12x1BBL, R-10x1BBL, rod 2.12" Centric #130.67018('98 Cherokee)
                              1.0625" bore, some '99-03 Durangos, hit or miss, *must check*, same fittings
                              1.125" bore, '03 Durango, Viper, Cardone #132967, Dorman #M630162, same fittings
                              1.125" bore, '03-'10 Viper, '99-'04 Dakota, '99-'01 Durango, Centric #130.67025 premium, #131.67025 standard
                              1.250" bore, Dodge 1500, 2500, 3500 pickup, Centric #130.67023, same fittings, pressure rod 1.09"(will need to lenghten rod)

                              Observations-
                              -Pad Composition seems to make more braking difference than actual pad size
                              -Pad Size seems to have more to do with heat rejection ability and fade resistance
                              -Rotor Diameter and Brake sweep area is related and proportional to braking ability
                              -Rotor Thickness and Mass/Weight have to do with temps, fade resistance and flexing








                              Track brake temps 1

                              Note: Only the front brake hardware was upgraded (calipers/rotors), yet significant performance improvements were also notes in the rear brakes due to the fronts improving so much.

                              2011 Durango Tests 60-0 Braking
                              ONLY 6 piston SRT8 Brembo front calipers + 15" rotors, stock rear 1 piston calipers + solid rotors
                              stock- 1st-128' 2nd-131' 3rd-138' 4th-147'
                              Brembo- 1st-120' 2nd-115' 3rd-114' 4th-114' NO FADE, IMPROVED BRAKING

                              Unsprung Weights = caliper lbs + rotor lbs
                              XJ calipers + 11" rotors-- ??.? lbs + 14.6 lbs = ??.? lbs
                              WJ calipers + 12" rotors-- 17.2 lbs + 17.4 lbs = 34.6 lbs
                              WJ calipers + SportTrac(ST) 12" rotors-- 17.2 lbs + 18.4 lbs = 35.6 lbs
                              Mustang calipers + 13" rotors-- 10.8 lbs + 20.8 lbs = 31.6 lbs (LESS THAN WJ)
                              Mustang calipers + 14" rotors-- 10.8 lbs + 24.6 lbs = 35.4 lbs (about same as WJ)
                              Jeep SRT8 4piston calipers + Mustang GT500 14" rotors-- 14.8 lbs + 24.6 lbs = 39.4 lbs
                              Jeep SRT8 6piston calipers + Mustang GT500 14" rotors-- 15.8 lbs + 24.6 lbs = 40.4 lbs
                              Jeep SRT8 6piston calipers + Shelby GT500 15" rotors= 15.8 lbs + 32.6 lbs = 48.4 lbs

                              ProStop Parts (Pep Boys)
                              5115G- XJ early 11" rotor $28.99
                              5396G- XJ late 11" rotor $36.99
                              5118G- WJ 12" rotor $31.99
                              54097G- '03 Ford SportTrac(ST) 12" rotor $47.99
                              PR945C- WJ Ceramic pads $50.99
                              Centric 120.65082 Ford SportTrac '01 premium 12" front rotor $42.79 RockAuto
                              Centric 120.61098 Ford Mustang GT '14 premium 13" front rotor $58.79 RockAuto
                              Centric 120.61089 Ford Mustang GT500 '14, premium 355mm 14" front rotor 26.2lbs, 1.26"thick $65.89 RockAuto

                              Calipers
                              Centric 142.58013/14 '13-'14 Jeep GC SRT8 6 piston front
                              Centric 142.58513/14 '13-'14 Jeep GC SRT8 4 piston rear
                              Centric 142.63073/74 '06-'12 Jeep GC SRT8 4 piston front
                              Centric 142.61119/20 Ford Mustang GT500 4 piston


                              ADAPTER BRACKET TO MOUNT MUSTANG GT CALIPERS TO EARLY XJ KNUCKLE





                              14" MUSTANG GT500 ROTORS AND MUSTANG GT CALIPERS


                              FINAL ITERATION OF XJ FRONT BIG BRAKES



                              Early XJ Knuckle and Late Hub Bearing



                              Side View



                              Early XJ Knuckle and 2014 GC SRT8 6 piston Caliper bolt spacing



                              2013 Shelby GT500 14" Rotor with center ground slightly to clear hub center



                              Backside View



                              Backside View with spacers and Grade 10.9 Bolts



                              FINAL ITERATION OF XJ FRONT BIG BRAKE 14"Mustang Shelby GT500 Rotors and Jeep GC SRT8 6 Piston Calipers
                              Last edited by white 99 tj; 02-04-2015, 07:45 PM.

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